1 Posted: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 6:32 AM

Posted this under ROTM but hours later I got this months ROTM email & so my post is immediately way back behind Saison chat so thought I try a stand alone post,

Put a Caribbean porter down 12hrs ago,

Im using a normal 23L FV so 24L is right up to the neck, started at 21L in anticipation of an initial krausen explosion, 12hrs in & the Krausen is behaving, the FV is just starting to come to life so Ive topped up to 24L with 21'c water.


Any thoughts on cold crashing this or have people just brewed & bottled?


Finally, when I get there, what have people primed this to & with?, recipe says; 250g/24L or 2x/750ml, (which is 266g/24L) - according to the brewers friend calc, the range for porter/stout is 1.7 - 2.3,

if drops are Corn sugar = 3.2 or 3.35 Volumes of Co2,
if drops are table sugar = 3.45 or 3.6,
what gives, other than my bottles when they explode!!

Ive got some DME, would that make any difference / improvement to the brew over table sugar?

I'll be bulk priming.


2 Posted: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 9:17 AM

Hi Mike,

I would say there is no point CC a porter. It is not dry hopped and you can't see through it anyway.

Seeing as you are using S-04, which has a reputation for stalling, and it is a biggish beer, I'd be more inclined to increase the temp by 2C as fermentation slows instead, to make sure it finishes out.

If you are bulk priming, I'd aim for the high end of the Brewer's Friend range if you are drinking early, and the low end if you are going to age it. When I say that I am talking about the the porter style only. I never use more than 140gm of table sugar in a 23L batch as I like to leave a margin of safety, in case the batch size ends up smaller than anticipated (more evaporation).

I have read that using DME for priming leaves a ring of residue inside the bottles that is difficult to remove, so I have never tried it. Don't think it would be worth it, or even noticeable. I'd stick with table sugar.

Cheers,

Christina.

3 Posted: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 2:10 PM

I pretty much agree with Christina, but I cold crash every batch from pale lagers to big dark porters and stouts. Less sediment in the bottles or kegs is a good thing regardless of beer style. Definitely raise the temp in the second half of fermentation, and yeah just bottle with table sugar or whatever. You won't notice any difference in flavor priming with DME in a porter anyway.

4 Posted: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 5:19 PM

Thanks peps,

Think notch it up to 23 or maybe 24'c in a few days time & Ill crash it for a few days after FG also just for sediments sake.

Wonder why on earth coopers had the Co2 so dam high in the posted recipe, has anyone actually brewed this at 3.4+ volumes of Co2 as instructed???

1 Drop per PET would be about spot on for the Calc porter style guide.

5 Posted: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 1:48 PM

You're misreading the ingredients and instructions, and your calcs are way off as well. It lists 250g carbonation drops because that's the size the packets come in, but you don't add 250g for priming. The drops are approx. 3g each which works out at 8g/L if you use two per 750mL bottle, or 192g for the whole 24 litres. Half that if you use one drop per bottle.

Add 2 carbonations drop per bottle and secure the caps (use only one carbonation drop for bottles intended to be stored for a longer period).

6 Posted: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 4:32 PM

More a case of not believing what the Web tells you, google info says 1x 250g pack = 60 drops adv.

250/60 = 4.16g, 2x4.16= 8.33g per 750ml, 24L/750ml = 32 bottles, 32x8.33 = 266.24g per 24L

BUT,,,,

I just weighed 10 drops = 32g so yup 3.2g each, (so there would be 78 or so per bag), 2x3.2=6.4, 32x6.4=204.8g per 24L

204.6g = 2.97 volumes of Co2, still miles over for the style, ironically 1 drop is just about spot on, 1.9volumes, possibly a case of someone trying to sell drops?

Either way think Ill ignore the recipe & follow the calculator.

7 Posted: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 8:55 PM

Yeah you definitely get more than 60 drops in a packet. I remember back in the dark ages when I was using carbonation drops in stubbies, I'd bottle about 58-60 stubbies and still have 15 or 20 drops left over.

You are right that two drops per tallie is overcarbonated for the style though. I had an overcarbed batch of porter once (different reason) that resulted in the only two bottle bombs I've ever had. The surviving bottles tasted nice when the carbonation lessened in the glass but freshly poured they weren't that great. Overcarbed porter or stout isn't very nice really. I think one drop per tallie would be enough.

8 Posted: Sunday, September 17, 2017 1:11 PM

Folks I think I might have a staller,,,

been 1016 for 3 days now, still getting the odd bubble out of airlock but SG is not budging.

Started at 21'c, went to 23'c on Thurs then 24'c yesterday.

Unfortunately I dont know my OG as I started at 21L, which made it 1062, topped up to 24L 24hrs into fermenting.

It tastes bloody fantastic so Im not sure weather to sit tight for a few more days or give it a stir to try an get it moving towards 1010 with the risk of oxygen getting in?

9 Posted: Sunday, September 17, 2017 1:39 PM

You could try taking a teaspoon of bread yeast and boiling it in a small amount water for a few minutes; this creates “ghost cells,” which absorb toxic byproducts of fermentation. Dump the ghost cells in the FV. If that doesn't help, next thing to try would be to rehydrate some Coopers yeast and pitch that in.

When I use S-04, which isn't that often, I always rehydrate and start it at 21C, and ferment it there as well; no stalls so far. I got that advice from Antiphile, a former forum regular. I know you said you started it at 21C, but did you rehydrate?

Cheers,

Christina.

10 Posted: Sunday, September 17, 2017 6:39 PM

Re hydrated (sterilized bowl & spoon) @ 29'c in 100mls boiled water for 15mins, then stirred & rested for about 10mins, then equalized with 21'c wort before pitching, more or less as per the fermentis instruction PDF.

I have got the 7g coopers yeast that came with the devils half ruby can in the fridge, should I pitch some of that & how much, 1/2 - 3grms?

Its def still alive, the air lock draws in when I take a SG & the next day is gasing out again.

Thanks for the help.

11 Posted: Sunday, September 17, 2017 10:43 PM

I have never had a stuck ferment, knock on wood, but the Coopers yeast, in the OS kit, is probably very good for restarting stuck ferments. It is a very vigorous yeast, descendant from distillers yeast, so alcohol hardy. Rumor has it that the yeast in the Half Ruby Porter kit is S-04, which I am less confident in, but since you already have it, go ahead and use it.

Very important to rehydrate the yeast whenever you are trying to restart a stuck ferment. I would probably use the entire pack, as there is a lot of alcohol in there by now, and it is a somewhat hostile environment for young yeast.

I have no idea why Fermentis recommends such low rehydration temps; I suppose they have their reasons. The Yeast Whisperer, Shea Comfort, says that it has to be at least 35C (no more than 40C) or the yeast will never regain their pre-dehydraton structure. I aim for the middle of the range, 38C, in case my thermometer is off.

Cheers,

Christina.

12 Posted: Monday, September 18, 2017 9:34 AM

Thanks for the help,

Took another SG this morn, still 1016 so has to be either finished or stuck!

7g yeast pouch from the Devils half ruby gone in,

Rested the yeast up to room temp, pitched into 100mls of 35'c boiled water, rested 15mins, stirred, rested 15mins, equalized with wort then pitched it in, didn't stir the wort.

Fingers crossed,,,,

13 Posted: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 11:09 AM

12hrs in with the extra yeast,

Down to 1015, a drop of 0001, not sure what effect I should be seeing?

14 Posted: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 1:16 PM

Give it another few days and see where it's at. I'm not sure how it gets down to that stated FG range with all that malt in it, with S-04 which isn't the highest of attenuators, even if it is higher in volume by 1 litre. I'd expect it more around the 1.012-1.015 mark personally.

15 Posted: Thursday, September 21, 2017 12:44 PM

Think its time to call a spade a spade,

still at 1015, maybe 1014.5 today, going to cold crash this for a few days & hope your right about the FG Otto.

I take it this was not a popular recipe since nobody has piped up to say “I brewed it & it went to,,, ” etc.

16 Posted: Thursday, September 21, 2017 9:13 PM

The recipe - here - calls for both yeast sachets to be added at the start.
Also, the recipe suggests to use 1 carbonation drop per 750ml bottle if intended to be stored for longer periods.
Don't “cold crash”.

We supply instructions with the hope that brewers will follow them.

17 Posted: Friday, September 22, 2017 12:17 AM

Hi Paul.

PB2:

The recipe - here - calls for both yeast sachets to be added at the start.

I just had my first look at the full recipe listing.

This brew really gets down to “1.008 to 1.012”?

P.S. I heard earlier yesterday that Mr. Hindmarsh is or has recently enjoyed some fishing over in Kiwiland among other things (I think? )?! It appears he is enjoying semi-retirement.

I'm happy to hear that given what happened as he certainly earned it.

Cheers,

Lusty.

18 Posted: Friday, September 22, 2017 1:27 PM

PB2:

The recipe - here - calls for both yeast sachets to be added at the start.

We supply instructions with the hope that brewers will follow them.


Crap, didn't read that very well did I,,,,, Hopefully it comes out ok.

Could you explain the reason to not cold crash or is that more “no need to cold crash” than “dont”?



19 Posted: Friday, September 22, 2017 6:55 PM

Yes, I meant “no need” to cold crash.

Glad to hear that David is enjoying himself - he had a long career with Coopers and he deserves to kick back, relax and enjoy.

20 Posted: Saturday, September 23, 2017 5:26 PM

Thanks for the feed back Paul,

Bottled this today, going back on shift 2mrw so its had 48 odd hrs of cold crashing, the yeast cake / trub was packed down nicely & looked like a clean transfer during bulk priming.

Hope this comes out ok, tastes fantastic so far, like chocolaty smokey Kahlua, high hopes,,,,