1 Posted: Saturday, June 17, 2017 10:03 PM

Hey Fellas,

Keen to find out any potential issues with increasing a batch size after no-chill.

Basically doing a BIAB recipe and want to no chill. The cube is a 20l cube but if I fill the sucker to the brim its smack bang on 23l.

Wanting to do a 30l batch because, well why not…

BUT, I can't no chill it because it will be too big. So can I make the batch stronger than intended and when I transfer to the FV in the morn to pitch just add water to get me to 30l?

The recipe is as follows:

4kg Pale Malt
1kg Wheat
500g Carapils

Mashed @ 66 for an hour or so..

Late & Dry Hopped with Cascade and Riwaka to an IBU of around 15.48 but no chilling so thinking this will get up to the high 20's??? Is there a formula to work out what IBU's will be with no chill compared to fast chill?

Goosing it up with 750g Dry Wheat Malt Extract and by Brewers Friend calculations that would give me a ABV of 6.43 on a 23l batch. If I increase the batch size to 30l on Brewers Friend it gives me an ABV of 4.93 which is more what I'm shooting for…

So thinking, mash as per normal, without the DME it would give an approximate ABV just higher then 5 & a 1/4%, do my boil, add hops etc. Once the Boil is done add the Wheat DME and whirlpool. Dump the 23l in the cube and set aside until morning.

Dump in the FV in the morning and add H20 to make up to 30l, pitch yeast and prey?

Any objections? Will it work?

Thanks in advance blokes!!

Biggie

2 Posted: Sunday, June 18, 2017 7:20 AM

Biggie Brewer:

snip…..

Late & Dry Hopped with Cascade and Riwaka to an IBU of around 15.48 but no chilling so thinking this will get up to the high 20's??? Any objections? Will it work?

Biggie


Hey Biggie

I can't see any reason why it won't work. I used to do this when I was doing stove top boils 0of 12 litres, adding 8 litres to get me to 20l. Just make sure you use a 30l batch size in your software, you will be diluting IBU as well as %ABV.

Not sure about the no chill bit, I'm sure that software does it but I've never done it. One of the other blokes here should be able to advise.

Cheers & Beers
Scottie
Valley Brew

3 Posted: Sunday, June 18, 2017 9:36 AM

Yeah, agree with Scottie. With my partial mash brews I'm essentially making a concentrated wort and then making it up to final volume. I don't do the no-chill thing myself, but I can't see why that would make and real difference to anything.

4 Posted: Sunday, June 18, 2017 11:34 AM

Hey mate this would.work and a few guys brew high gravity and dilute when transferring to fermenter. Usually due to restrictions in brew kettle, but yours being cube restriction is the same essentially. Sort if like those 15L fresh wort kits which you top up to 20L.

30L batch, ypur FV must be huge. My biggest is 30L and I don't go above 25-26L batch pt it will climb out the top.

Sounds like you have already brewed and cubed this batch? If that is the case, adding DME and topping up to 30L will could your IBUS to the point where beer is out of baLance. How about just fermenting this as a 23L batch and diluting next time?

Next time you could try what Scottie did and add more grain, higher OG into the cube and then dilute into the FV - no wheat DME required which will end up cheaper for you for same.

5 Posted: Sunday, June 18, 2017 3:59 PM

Thanks Guys,

Doesn't look like it's going to cause a problem, I have read that hop utilisation changes depending on the ABV of the wort. Is this a massive difference? So if I calculate the hops in Brewers Friend based on the 30l with the DME which would be calculating it based on a 5% ABV but in actual fact the 23l batch will be about 5.25% prior to adding the DME and top up water?

Am I being pedantic?

joolbag:

Hey mate this would.work and a few guys brew high gravity and dilute when transferring to fermenter. Usually due to restrictions in brew kettle, but yours being cube restriction is the same essentially. Sort if like those 15L fresh wort kits which you top up to 20L.

30L batch, ypur FV must be huge. My biggest is 30L and I don't go above 25-26L batch pt it will climb out the top.

Sounds like you have already brewed and cubed this batch? If that is the case, adding DME and topping up to 30L will could your IBUS to the point where beer is out of baLance. How about just fermenting this as a 23L batch and diluting next time?

Next time you could try what Scottie did and add more grain, higher OG into the cube and then dilute into the FV - no wheat DME required which will end up cheaper for you for same.


Luckily brew day is next Saturday so all sweet :) Was thinking of doing it this way to have the wort for the boil kettle closer to the finished beer so hop utilisation is closer to Brewers Friend?

Can anyone shed some light on the affect of the hops in heavier wort? If any? Or as I mentioned above should I RDWAHAHB…

Cheers blokes!

6 Posted: Sunday, June 18, 2017 4:01 PM

Also the FV has markings up to 30l…

Pushing it am I???? Lol

Cheers

Biggie!

7 Posted: Sunday, June 18, 2017 4:53 PM

Having a higher boil gravity will reduce your hop utilisation and final IBUs .

As for maxing out your FVs I dare say it'll become a messy overflow , all my current FVs are marked to 30 l and have had some 25 litres batches make a mess of the airlock .
There is a product called Fermcap which I think is supposed to reduce foaming during boil and fermentation .

8 Posted: Sunday, June 18, 2017 8:47 PM

The hop utilisation changes with the SG of the wort, not the ABV. Being wort it obviously has no alcohol in it yet.

What you're basically referring to is maxiBIAB, whereby you brew the wort to a smaller volume than the intended batch size but make it a higher OG and IBU so that when you top up with water it dilutes it back down to the intended levels. It's a process that does work so I can't see any problems with doing it.

9 Posted: Sunday, June 18, 2017 10:08 PM

Otto Von Blotto:

The hop utilisation changes with the SG of the wort, not the ABV. Being wort it obviously has no alcohol in it yet.

What you're basically referring to is maxiBIAB, whereby you brew the wort to a smaller volume than the intended batch size but make it a higher OG and IBU so that when you top up with water it dilutes it back down to the intended levels. It's a process that does work so I can't see any problems with doing it.


Yep SG sorry not ABV!!!

What about the hops bitterness increasing as a result of the no chill. Punching it all in BF gives me an IBU of 19.45 without taking in to account the no chill.

As an estimate, what would this finish at??

Cheers!

10 Posted: Monday, June 19, 2017 6:13 AM

It largely depends on the amount of hops used, their AA% and how long the wort stays above about 80C in the cube. Honestly, I wouldn't be overly concerned with it. I've never bothered adjusting hopping levels to compensate for IBUs increasing, I just brew to my own tastes and what works to achieve the results I'm looking for.

I'm assuming you're brewing some sort of pale ale in which case it won't matter if the IBUs creep up into the 30s. 15.5 is very low, even with an increase from no-chilling it I don't think it will end up high enough for the style. You'll also find that IBUs contributed from late additions like that present differently to ones contributed by longer boiled additions. They don't seem as bitter.

Last edited by Otto Von Blotto (Monday, June 19, 2017 6:13 AM)