1 Posted: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 9:16 PM

Well, I just ordered an immersion chiller from Cheaky Peak! No-chill cubes have done me well for a while, but now… well sometime between the 21st and 27th June… I will be chilling my wort straight after the boil! I'm very keen to see the difference in hop presence and clarity by using a chiller. Has anyone else changed over from the dark side? Did you find much difference?

Exciting times are ahead when I can pick up my second fermenting fridge this week too! Now to get a second heat belt and temp controller…

2 Posted: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 9:28 PM

Nearly 5 years no-chilling and not planning on changing any time soon primarily because the fermenter is never empty on weekends when I do brew days and to try to line it up that way would throw out my production schedule. Aside from that if I have a period where I can't brew for a few weeks for some reason, I'd end up running out of beer. I'd probably consider it if I didn't have to work 5 days a week and could brew whenever, but at this point no-chilling suits me far better.

I am interested to see what differences you find with chilling compared to not chilling though, so I'll be following this thread .

Cheers

Kelsey

3 Posted: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 9:53 PM

I've only been brewing every fortnight… basically once the FV is empty, I try to put another one down. This will probably change with the second fermenting fridge, I'll try and have 2 brews fermenting at once, probably do one a week. Currently, I have about 8 or so bottles left of one brew when the next one is ready to drink so I'd like to get ahead a little…

I'll definately let you the differences, if any, that I find. I'm really looking forward to not thinking too much about hop times above 80 degrees and changing 0 min additions to dry hops etc.

4 Posted: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 11:24 PM

If you can get below 60C in 10 minutes I think is the figure, you will really see the difference in the cold break. I haven't actually used no-chill myself, but since I got a good immersion chiller and followed the Brulosophy recommended (is that blasphemy here?) method of a quick chill the wort going into my fermenter is clearer than 90% of craft brews, and once chill haze has settled my beers as clear as any commercial beer.

I'm not convinced the lack of break material in the ferment affects flavour, but it certainly does affect clarity (I think chill haze disappearing within about a week also occurred about the same time.)

5 Posted: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 11:26 PM

Good move IMHO wotto.

Separation of wort from the trub as early as possible is a good thing I reckon. Given the option to reduce that time-frame by cooling the wort from the boil then have it up & fermenting asap can only be a good thing as it lessens this contact time.

I'm not interested in discussing the pro's & con's of no-chilling worts for storage as opposed to fermenting them asap, but I view the practice a lazy one & one that only invites the potential for unnecessary problems TBQH.

Good luck with the shift.

Cheers,

Lusty.

6 Posted: Thursday, June 15, 2017 6:16 AM

Quokka:

If you can get below 60C in 10 minutes I think is the figure,


Hey Quokka

I'm pretty lucky at the moment, its winter and probably one of the few good things about it. My last two brews, 21 litres of wort were chilled to 16 degrees, after 30 minute steep/whirlpool, in 8 minutes. Normally in summer it takes 10 minutes, I need to slow the output from the kettle, to get to 20 degrees. So once I actually start to chill I meet this requirement, however not if I am adding flameout additions.

My chiller is Ace, its a chill out plate chiller. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who isn't OCD about sanitising though. The wort passes through the seven plates, very fine tolerance and cleaning of the unit can not be short circuited, believe me I found out the hard way. I have to back flush, flush with boiled water, flush twice with PBW. Boiling water, starsan and boiling water.

Cheers & Beers
Scottie
Valley Brew

7 Posted: Thursday, June 15, 2017 9:13 AM

Scottie:

I'm pretty lucky at the moment, its winter and probably one of the few good things about it. My last two brews, 21 litres of wort were chilled to 16 degrees, after 30 minute steep/whirlpool, in 8 minutes. Normally in summer it takes 10 minutes, I need to slow the output from the kettle, to get to 20 degrees. So once I actually start to chill I meet this requirement, however not if I am adding flameout additions.


How much water do you go through to get to 20 deg. in summer?

John

8 Posted: Thursday, June 15, 2017 9:19 AM

I doubt you can say no chilled beers will lack hop presence and have poorer clarity
My no chilled brews are great in both regards .
A friend who likes his toys uses this to run the chiller
His brews are no clearer than mine even though he uses conicals , no lack of hop presence since we adjust recipes and process to suit individual systems .

I'll be sticking with no chill at home since I work 6 days a week and can do a sneaky after work brew or a double brewday and stockpile / gift cubes easily

9 Posted: Thursday, June 15, 2017 9:44 AM

5 years and one infected cube is a pretty decent strike rate, and if the stupid tap seal wasn't leaky even that cube would have been fine. Pretty much all the infections I read about on here and elsewhere occur in the fermenter - no-chill can't be blamed for that because if it's done properly there's practically zero risk.

You can call it lazy all you want (I prefer to call it a more efficient use of my time ) but the fact of the matter is that it is a method that works and works very well. So what if hop additions have to be moved a bit. Clarity can be fixed post ferment anyway if desired. You've often tasted Ben's brews that are all no-chilled and thoroughly enjoyed them.

If you're in a position to be able to brew the wort and pitch yeast into it on the same day then that's all well and good, I'm not naysaying it at all or trying to convince anybody to stick with no-chilling - if I was in that position I'd probably be chilling my wort as well, but I'm not so it's either no-chill or go back to kits and extracts, and there's Buckley's chance of that. All I'm saying is, it is a viable alternative method and the criticism of it is unwarranted. It reminds me a little of those AG brewers who constantly talk down to kit or extract brewers…

Cheers

Kelsey

10 Posted: Thursday, June 15, 2017 10:48 AM

I'm not that experienced compared to some on here, but these are my impressions so far having done a few no chills then using a counter flow chiller.

Clarity, can't say I've noticed a difference. I try and leave any cold break in the cube anyway.
Hop presence, can't say I've noticed a difference with identical brews done no chill and chilled.
But I do like the ability to transfer straight to the fermenter. I'm a clumsy idiot and would always spill from cubes and I like the ability to start the fermentation process straight away.
As for people saying it wastes water, I collect the water and use it for cleaning and brewing my next brew.
I'll still no chill at time when my fermenter is busy and I have time to brew.

11 Posted: Thursday, June 15, 2017 11:36 AM

Beerlust:

but I view the practice a lazy one .


Lol.
I view extract brewing as lazy.

12 Posted: Thursday, June 15, 2017 12:46 PM

Ben 10:

Beerlust:

but I view the practice a lazy one .


Lol.
I view extract brewing as lazy.

According to Kelsey, I'm making “more efficient use of my time”.



Cheers,

Lusty.

13 Posted: Thursday, June 15, 2017 12:53 PM

Was waiting for someone to say it Ben ….cheeky bugger

14 Posted: Thursday, June 15, 2017 6:04 PM

The way I understand it is that no-chill was invented in Australia by a home brewer for a practical reason. Australia is one of the driest continents on earth and water usage and saving it is of a premium. So it wasn't invented out of laziness but out of necessity.

There are also pros and cons between immersion chillers and plate chillers, plate chillers use water more efficiently. Infections will happen anywhere where cleaning sanitisation are substandard.

@PXR-5
John
I will conduct a flow measurement next brew and let you know the results, even in Tasmania contrary to what other think we subject to drought and in the midst of a dry spell. Therefore I should measure to ensure that I'm responsible for my part.

Cheers & Beers
Scottie
Valley Brew

15 Posted: Thursday, June 15, 2017 6:58 PM

I tend to agree with Ben to some degree on that. With extract half the work has been done for you already, with kit and kilo it's all been done other than topping up with water and pitching yeast, so in a way it is lazier than doing a full AG brew. No-chilling is simply skipping an unnecessary step*, but you still have to do all the rest of the mashing and boiling etc.

Agreed Scottie, it just happens to also be very convenient for brewers like myself who very very rarely have the fermenter empty on a brew day. Most of my kegging and pitching new batches occurs during the week.

*I only say this because we know that cubing wort works perfectly well, so it is technically unnecessary to quickly chill the wort. But I'm not about to go and criticise anybody who does or bag out the technique.

Cheers

Kelsey

16 Posted: Thursday, June 15, 2017 7:16 PM

Otto Von Blotto:

All I'm saying is, it is a viable alternative method and the criticism of it is unwarranted. It reminds me a little of those AG brewers who constantly talk down to kit or extract brewers…


It's definitely a viable alternative. I first got into AG and just thought it was easier and cheaper to buy a cube and no chill than spend more money on a chiller. All my AG batches have been great with only a couple of issues that weren't a result of the chill method used. I know it will make the brew day slightly longer but I'm fine with that.

17 Posted: Thursday, June 15, 2017 7:22 PM

Beerlust:

Separation of wort from the trub as early as possible is a good thing I reckon. Given the option to reduce that time-frame by cooling the wort from the boil then have it up & fermenting asap can only be a good thing as it lessens this contact time.

I don't believe there's a person on this planet today that could actually taste the difference at the glass under A/B scrutiny. As with many things in brewing it seems, imagined or theoretical issues are just that… imagined and theoretical. I have no doubt that there's no shortage of no-chill brewers that can testify to that, and though I'm not one myself, I don't believe for a nano-second that their beers are compromised in any detectable way.

18 Posted: Thursday, June 15, 2017 7:27 PM

Wotto:

It's definitely a viable alternative. I first got into AG and just thought it was easier and cheaper to buy a cube and no chill than spend more money on a chiller. All my AG batches have been great with only a couple of issues that weren't a result of the chill method used. I know it will make the brew day slightly longer but I'm fine with that.

It is easier and cheaper but that doesn't mean getting a chiller is a bad idea. I've never thought of chilling as something that shouldn't be done just because there's an easier and less time consuming (on the brew day itself that is) method. As I said if I'm at a point one day where chilling is an option for me to easily do, I'd give it a try, but at this point in time that's not the case. Still, I'm keen to hear how it goes for you.

19 Posted: Thursday, June 15, 2017 7:31 PM

BlackSands:

I don't believe there's a person on this planet today that could actually taste the difference at the glass under A/B scrutiny. As with many things in brewing it seems, imagined or theoretical issues are just that… imagined and theoretical. I have no doubt that there's no shortage of no-chill brewers that can testify to that, and though I'm not one myself, I don't believe for a nano-second that their beers are compromised in any detectable way.

The same recipe no-chilled will probably present differently in the glass to one that has been actively chilled, although it would depend on the style and recipe. A stout with only an early bittering addition would probably not be any different but a hoppy ale with a ton of late hops likely would be (although it can be worked around to compensate without adding any difficulty to the process). I agree though, it doesn't mean it would be worse, or better, or at more risk of contamination or whatever other nonsense the no-chill naysayers want to dream up about it.

Everyone has their processes that work for them and unless it's something that has the potential to cause drastic problems with the beer, I see no need to criticise or discourage it.

20 Posted: Thursday, June 15, 2017 7:40 PM

I use counter flow chiller as well, how ever i brew in the garage and need to use garden hose, so saving the water for next brew is not an option. I am playing around other options to save some water like rather than trying to get wort down to pitching temp i run it from boil to fv straight up without recirculation and leaving 10 hours before pitching. I dont cube because i always have an fv to fill (7). Not sure if im doing it wrong but has worked so far.