1 Posted: Monday, March 20, 2017 8:48 PM

I thought I'd start a new thread off for any wheat discussion as I was discussing wheat on a Hop based thread. I've titled it wheat and other grains if anyone wants to widen it out.

G'day Lusty - Getting back to our wheat discussion. In what recipes would it be appropriate to use terrified wheat, base malted wheat and flaked wheat? I'm mainly interested in using wheat for head propagation and retention reasons and not for wheat beers.

As you assume, that terrified wheat should leave more body behind, would I be correct in also assuming that it should promote better beer foam qualities than base malted wheat?


Cheers - Morrie

2 Posted: Monday, March 20, 2017 9:01 PM

I'm guessing the terrified wheat would just run away never to be seen again at the sight of a grain mill

3 Posted: Monday, March 20, 2017 9:48 PM

Terrified wheat is great for producing a nice head on a stout. It imparts little flavour and less haze than other forms of wheat, so it used to be used in a lot of “real ales.”

It does tend to thicken up your mash, though, so be careful if using sparging. In BIAB you might need a bit more squeezing, but the yield seems about the same as without it.

Joe White has a nice one for traditional British styles of beer, haven't used it in any others.

4 Posted: Monday, March 20, 2017 10:09 PM

Otto Von Blotto:

I'm guessing the terrified wheat would just run away never to be seen again at the sight of a grain mill


I thought someone would pick up on that. Sometimes I can't help myself with changing words around at times.

5 Posted: Monday, March 20, 2017 11:59 PM

I used to use a bit of wheat in a lot of my brews, for head retention. It did work but when I started mixing it with US-05 I often ended up with phenolic brews, so I stopped using both wheat and US-05. But actually I never had a batch with wheat fermented with the kit yeast get phenolic….Apparently there is stuff in wheat that can lead to phenolic flavours, precursors or something. Info is in the US-05 thread if you are interested.

Apparently, if that chalkboard photo from the year 2000 can be believed, Coopers put wheat in their Stout, Dark Ale, Bitter, and Pale Ale. The Porter kit is newer, but I would not be surprised it contains wheat as well. Probably not a good idea to add more wheat to those kits.

Cheers,

Christina.

6 Posted: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 12:51 AM

US-05 is a poor choice for British styled ales anyway, designed for hop-forward US styles, so I wouldn't worry about it. Torrified wheat has been used in those styles for centuries.

7 Posted: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 6:20 AM

I'm only intending to use a maximum of 6% wheat in any of the American Pale Ales I brew, just for better beer foam qualities. I know some brewers here have run into phenolic issues with wheat and US05, but I have never experienced it myself even when using a Coopers can of wheat extract which I believe is 50% wheat and then added to a Bootmaker kit and using US05.

Anyway I'm now using 1272 yeast in my APAs. I think rye is another grain which is also good for beer foam and I intend to try it at some stage, but I'm still working through experimentation with other stuff yet and you can only do a little at a time otherwise you won't actually know what is affecting your results. I've found heaps of dry hopping to be great for beer foam.

8 Posted: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 7:10 AM

Hops contain compounds beneficial to head development and retention. This is why you often see beers with big late hop/dry hop additions present excellent head retention and lacing on the glass. On a personal level, I do notice that my beers brewed like that such as APAs present better head retention than my red ale for instance. The crystal malt used likely helps as well.

9 Posted: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 8:51 AM

I've got a Pale Ale with a small addition of malted wheat(200gm) in the FV at the moment with US-05. First time I've used it(wheat that is) and hope it goes well as a little concerned after reading Christinas comments above.

10 Posted: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 9:11 AM

ChristinaS1:

It did work but when I started mixing it with US-05 I often ended up with phenolic brews, so I stopped using both wheat and US-05. But actually I never had a batch with wheat fermented with the kit yeast get phenolic….Apparently there is stuff in wheat that can lead to phenolic flavours, precursors or something. Info is in the US-05 thread if you are interested.


It was for that reason that I've stayed away from wheat altogether. One very bad experience with wheat and US-05 resulting in the worst ‘band-aid’ brew imaginable I reckon the water was likely higher in chlorine at the time too.

I'm, curious though, I don't generally have an issue with head formation and retention…except, and this is hugely ironic, that one particular phenolic brew where I did actually use wheat!

11 Posted: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 12:13 PM

I haven't used wheat in any beers since my first few batches of AG and from tasting the brews without it compared to with it, I couldn't really tell much difference so I have not bothered buying it since. If anything I preferred them without it. Of course, it's purely a personal taste thing in that instance. A 20 minute mash rest after the main mash around 72C should improve head retention as well. Thankfully I didn't get the dreaded phenolic crap from using it in conjunction with US-05 though!

12 Posted: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 7:48 PM

Drop the wheat …use Rye !

13 Posted: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 9:25 PM



Wye?

14 Posted: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 11:31 PM

I have been trying to decided which head building adjunct to use in my light brews. Since I won't be using US-05 again any time soon, I might give torrified wheat a try in my next partial mash. For those of you who have used it before, how much do you need for a 23L batch, in say an English Bitter?

Otto Von Blotto:

Hops contain compounds beneficial to head development and retention. This is why you often see beers with big late hop/dry hop additions present excellent head retention and lacing on the glass. On a personal level, I do notice that my beers brewed like that such as APAs present better head retention than my red ale for instance. The crystal malt used likely helps as well.


About crystal malts aiding head retention, apparently Dr. Charles Bramforth now says crystal malts are actually foam negative, especially lighter coloured ones, and ones from certain maltsters (although he does not identify them).

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/post2141/

Cheers,

Christina.

15 Posted: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 11:43 PM

ChristinaS1:

About crystal malts aiding head retention, apparently Dr. Charles Bramforth now says light colour crystal malts are actually foam negative.

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/post2141/

Cheers,

Christina.


Interesting that. I find my TTLA clone using 3% dark crystal has better head qualities then my APA with 6% crystal60L.

16 Posted: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 6:48 AM

I'll have to come back to that, I don't have 3 hours spare right now but that is interesting. I'm not really too worried about it though since I use nucleated glasses which tend to promote head retention in most beers anyway. The only ones they don't work well on are those megaswill knockoffs - which leads me to believe commercially they probably add some sort of agent to boost the head retention in these beers. If I ever brew another one I'll try a mash rest at 72C and see whether it makes a difference.

17 Posted: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:19 AM

ChristinaS1:

Dr. Charles Bramforth now says crystal malts are actually foam negative, especially lighter coloured ones, and ones from certain maltsters (although he does not identify them).

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/post2141/

Cheers,

Christina.

Yes, I recall hearing that too. It's also consistent with a Brulosophy finding re: carapils which also appeared to contribute nothing to foam formation and retention.

18 Posted: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 10:44 AM

I've started watching it but have to come back as it is long winded but at the same time highly entertaining. The foam stuff starts at around the 35 min mark. I am going off light crystal and on to dark crystal just for colouring now. Also will use around 5 or 6% wheat to see how it goes.

Last edited by Morrie (Wednesday, March 22, 2017 10:44 AM)