1 Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 12:30 PM

Hello fellow brewers.
Today I'm am going to bottle the bewitched amber ale that came with the craft kit I got for Christmas. I'm pretty keen to give biab a go small scale, I should be able to to it on the stove if its only 10l. I'm just wondering if anyone could recommended an all grain recipe for a pale ale.

2 Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 1:11 PM

I'll be following this because I think it's a great idea, might try it myself.

3 Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 2:03 PM

I've never done it, but I copy and pasted this from an English forum I frequent.
I'd be interested to hear what those more experienced brewers think of this.

If you've made a few kits and/or extract brews, why not have a go at a simple AG brew, to see the difference it makes? A small batch of AG beer is not difficult and you will discover the difference and feel the joy and pride of making it from scratch. All you need for 5 litres is 1kg of Maris Otter, or other pale malt, a packet of hops, and a sachet of yeast. You just need a thermometer, a decent sized pan and something to strain the grain from the wort. A big sieve, or a piece of cloth in a colander. A bag that fills the pan and,drapes over the sides and holds the grains, made from muslin or voile, is ideal. You also need a hydrometer to check the gravity before and after fermentation.


1kg Maris Otter (about £1.50)
One packet of hops (any you like - EKG, Citra, Amarillo, Galaxy, Fuggles, First gold etc) (About £3-4, but you will only use 15g of the 100g, so cost is around 50p)
One packet of yeast, 3g dried yeast is enough. (50p ish)


1. Heat 3 litres of water to 75C in big pan.
2. Pour in the pale malt while stirring - get rid of lumps.
3. Check temp is 65-70C - adjust if necessary with cold or boiling water.
4. Wrap a thick towel round the pot and leave alone for one hour.
5. Strain into a bucket or other vessel through sieve, or colander lined with cloth.
6. Heat another 4 litres of water to 80C and add the grains back to it. Leave 10 mins, stir, and strain the liquid to your bucket. You should have about 6 litres, which will reduce when you boil it for an hour.
7. Dispose of grains, add wort to pan and bring to boil.
8. Add 5 grams of hops when boiling point is reached.
9. 55 Mins later add 5 to 10g of hops, depending on your hoppiness requirements, boil another 5 mins and switch off.
10. Cool the wort in sink, with lid on, add to sterilised FV/demijohn via sterilised sieve to catch hops, and top up the level to 5 litres if necessary. Pitch yeast at around 18 - 20C.

Here's a youtube video that shows the method quite well:

You should get 8 or 9 x 500ml bottles of lovely beer for about £2.50. It takes me about 3 hours start to finish, making 10 litre batches in this way (see below).

10 Litre option: You can just double all the quantities and make 10 Litres, which is what I do most of the time, it's a good amount of beer. About 18x500ml bottles, or 27x330ml bottles. You just need a 15ish litre pot.

If you've never made an all grain beer it's really worth giving this a go.

4 Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 2:34 PM

I'm at twoc now getting grain.

5 Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 2:59 PM

Here's another one, you'll get the idea in the first few minutes, much ado about nothing in the middle, talking about what he's doing with the hops.


I just wanted to hear some feedback on his process, because it looks pretty simple.

6 Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 3:09 PM

I'm following this one too. I've never tried an AG but this forum is pretty inspiring innit?

I already have a 20 litre pot so this looks handleable. I would probably double the recipe up to 10 litres, I think.

What are you using for a bag BM?

7 Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 3:40 PM


I'm following this one too. I've never tried an AG but this forum is pretty inspiring innit?

I already have a 20 litre pot so this looks handleable. I would probably double the recipe up to 10 litres, I think.

What are you using for a bag BM?

'Tis indeed.

Just throwing it out there, I'm on a budget, so for me, I've just been thinking about what I already have, like cheesecloth, maybe a pillowcase?

I don't know how much those bags are from HBS, if they're pretty cheap I'll just buy one.

8 Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 4:54 PM

Will cheesecloth be strong enough to handle the wet weight of the grains I wonder? Probably OK for a 5 litre mini brew I guess. Not so sure for a 10 litre.

A new white pillowcase might be the go although the width of the opening might cause problems? Need to hear from the experienced BIAB AG brewers at this point, I think.

I have a heap of old climbing tapes and cords that could probably be sewn in to reinforce the bag if necessary. I read that a fabric called “Voile” is commonly used for making these bags due to its strength and suitable - what's the word - porosity?

9 Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 5:15 PM

Would it be ok to use crystal malt in place of the maris otter? I have some crystal malt and roasted barley as well as goldings and fuggles.

I was thinking of making a brown ale.


Oor Wullie.

10 Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 5:43 PM

I don't think you can substitute for the pale malt. Crystal malt is a specialty grain. From what I've read, you need some enzymes from the pale malt to deal with the starches in Crystal but I'm not overly sure about this. I'm only at the stage of contemplating a BIAB AG myself so, again, I hope we will soon hear from the experienced BIAB AG brewers around here.

11 Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 5:51 PM



I'm following this one too. I've never tried an AG but this forum is pretty inspiring innit?

I already have a 20 litre pot so this looks handleable. I would probably double the recipe up to 10 litres, I think.

What are you using for a bag BM?

Took the missus down to spotlight to get some swiss voile fabric, shes gonna make me one to suit the pot I have.
The fabric is $10 a linear meter we figure half a meter would be enough for a bag and some hop bags too.
May also use it to strain the wort,The mesh is so fine.

12 Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 6:21 PM


Simple little read here

13 Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 6:45 PM

G'day Mr Wullie. No you can't substitute the Maris with Crystal. MO is the basic grain for making beer. Let me explain that better.

When doing AG, the base malt is a Pale Ale Malt, generally described as a “Two row Pale Malt Extract”. This is the stuff you buy in 25k bags, so as to keep your cost down. What we call specialty malts, like your Crystal, are used to give colour and taste. So, no you cannot substitute.

So I guess the basics are

Pale Ale Malt
Specialty grains
Hops of your choice

Those four thing make beer. What amounts you use depends on the recipe you're trying to brew. Maris Otter is just the name of a base malt, it is not a specialty grain.


14 Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 8:15 PM

To design you recipe you will want to use something like brewersfriend.com website. You also need to know how bitter you want to make your pale ale. Something along the lines of 25-30 ibu is pretty standard for a pale ale. A basic recipe will comprise of around 85-90% base malt (maris otter, golden promise etc.) And 10-15% specialty…. like a light crystal malt. Then hold it at around 65-66° for an hour. You also need to account for how much water will be absorbed by the grain and how much will boil off in an hour probably around 4-5 litres.and how much you will lose to all the trub (grain crap) that you want to leave in the kettle preferably. So somewhere around 16 litres of water to start with will let you end up with about 10 litres into the fermenter. Next you need to understand what difference adding the hops at different times will make to your beer.
Firstly add to the wort with 60 minutes left in boil.. to add majority of bitterness.
2nd add to wort with 20 minutes left in boil to add a little more bitterness but add flavour.
3rd add with a couple of minutes left or when you turn the heat off to add aroma.
Play round with the numbers in brewersfriend to help figure out all the og estimated fg and most importantly to calculate bitterness.
Make sure you understand that the aa (alpha acid) % will affect how much bitterness you get.
It sounds complicated but it really isnt.
An example recipe which may work could be
16litres water
2kg marris otter
200g light crystal
25 g cascade pellets
Us05 yeast
1/4 whirlfloc tablet

Mash grain at 65 for 60 mins
Remove grain
Bring to boil
60mins left add 8g cascade hops
20 mins left add 8g cascade
10 mins left add whirlfloc
2 mins left add 9g cascade
Remove from heat
Cool in sink
Strain into fermenter pitch yeast
Ferment at 18
Og about 1.045
Fg about 1.009
Abv in bottle once carbonated about5.1%
Bitterness about 29 ibu
This is based on efficiency of around 65%
Hope this helps a little.

15 Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 10:36 PM

G'day Nathan,

I regularly brew 12 litre (end of boil volume) all-grain batches for my little Coopers DIY Craft fermenter and have plenty of recipes I can share with you, depends what you want to brew. As far as other equipment, I have successfully done BIAB for this batch size in my 21 litre kettle, although I usually prefer to mash and batch sparge in a separate cooler mash tun then run off into my kettle. I've done plenty of different beer styles this way - ales, lagers, English, German, Belgian, American, all with good results. For example my last 10 batches were: American IPA, Northern English Brown Ale, American Pale Ale, English Bitter, American Amber Ale, German Pils, Vienna Lager, Marzen, American IPA and English IPA. Before that were some German wheat beers, a Belgian pale ale and a Saison.

For working out how much grain to use, you will need to know what sort of mash / lauter efficiency you will get (basically the gravity you can expect in a given volume from mashing and lautering a given amount of grain with a given amount of yield). Measuring your pre-boil volume and gravity to work this out will give you an idea of your mash / lauter efficiency. Some prefer to work off a different number, brewhouse efficiency, but this is not as useful as it takes into account losses later on in the process and so includes confounding variables. Using the pre-boil volume and gravity is the best way to keep things on track for a batch as you brew it, and also to compare how different recipes perform on your system in terms of efficiency over time.

Beersmith 2 is good software for tweaking recipes to your system, although you do need to set it up for your equipment and then work around some wrinkles (especially to stop having it base things off brewhouse efficiency and use your mash / lauter efficiency instead). Thankfully it is doable and once tweaked I've found it to be quite useful software.

In terms of a specific recipe, let me know if there's any of the above styles that you're after, but this makes a really tasty English Brown ale …

Style: Northern English Brown Ale
OG: 1.047
IBUs: 30
EBC: 40

90% British Ale malt
8% British medium crystal malt (I used some German Crystal in my last iteration and it wasn't as good)
2% British chocolate malt

EKG / Fuggles @60 minutes (20 IBUs)
Styrian Goldings @5 minutes (2g/l - 10 IBUs)

British Ale Yeast (any from White Labs, Wyeast or for dried Safale S-04) … I've used WLP006 and WY1469 with success.

Good luck! Small batch all grain brewing is a lot of fun



16 Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 11:16 PM

If you could send us your American IPA recipe that would be awesome, I'm really into that style at the moment.
Thanks for your advice john glad someone has some experience.
If I could churn out a 12. L batch every fortnight it should keep me interested.

17 Posted: Monday, January 09, 2017 12:10 AM

English Bitter recipe please John

18 Posted: Monday, January 09, 2017 10:09 AM

From BM's link:

“A big bag made out of 100% polyester, very fine mesh.”


19 Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 3:32 PM

Ingredients have been purchased, more expensive than I thought. I got 2.5kg of Marris otter for $12.80 and 100g of cascade for $8. This combined with the 400g of medium crystal grain I have I should be able to brew something this week. my bag is made and I've decided on a 20l pot from big w for $20 I just need to grab some us05 and I'm ready. Any last minute advice for me?

20 Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 6:23 PM

To Mr. Beard and Baby,

Mate, the cost of your Marris Otter at $5.12 kg is expensive. If you are going into AG you will need to buy your major malt in 25k bags. For instance, a 25k bag of MO from National Homebrew will cost $70 or $2.80 per k. If you shop around you might do better. Also if you can find a supplier close by, you can pick it up and safe the freight.

Other than that, good drinking mate.