1 Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 10:59 AM

I have picked up the ingredients to put down my first full extract brew…… a version of Dr Smurto's Golden Ale, as inspired by FastHomeBrew, modified by myself for conveniently sized and cheaply available local ingredients. But before I start, I was just hoping for a sanity check!

2.27kg (5lb) light LME
1.135kg (2.5lb) wheat LME
140g Briess crystal 40
140g Franco Belges crystal wheat
Steep grain at 65-70°C for 30 min in 4L, sparge with 1L, add 500g LME, bring to boil
10g Magnum (13.5%) @ 60 min
9g Simcoe (12.9%) and 9g Amarillo (8.5%) @ 20 min
9g Simcoe and 9g Amarillo @ 5 min
9g Simcoe and 9g Amarillo @ 0 min
Add rest of LME and hold at 90-95°C for 15 minute hop steep and LME sanitisation
Cool, volume up to 21L (5.5gal), pitch rehydrated US-05

I have planned it out with Ian H's extract spreadsheet, which suggests an EBC of 11.4, OG of 1.051, ~5.0% ABV before carbonation, and somewhere between 26.9 and 36.3 IBU depending on whether the hop concentration factor is used. This all seems spot-on target…… although if anybody has any last minute suggestions, I would be happy to hear them!

2 Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 12:02 PM

sounds like a nice brew Beefy. I did a Smurto's golden ale once using the kit base and unfortunately it had strong phenolic flavours. A real shame as I didn't get to taste the beer for what it was supposed to be like.

I will have to have another go, but I will do an extract-only brew like you

Keep us posted how it goes

Jools

3 Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 1:18 PM

Hop schedule looks good.

The whole recipe looks fine but it would be easier to review the recipe if all of it was converted to metric.

4 Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 2:21 PM

Hairy:

The whole recipe looks fine but it would be easier to review the recipe if all of it was converted to metric.


Edited. As an Aussie who has live in Canadialand for many years, I have learnt to work between the two on the fly - and sometimes forget it isn't always easy for everyone else!

5 Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 3:01 PM

Looks okay but…. could do with some hops.

6 Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 3:49 PM

Ben 10:

could do with some hops.


Ha!

Given I don't have the capability to do a full wort boil, and a bit more uncertainty with smaller boil volumes, I will slowly build up confidence by slowly increasing the bitterness levels. It could be quite easy to get my first IPA very, very wrong……

7 Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 11:08 PM

Hi Beefy,

Your recipe didn't mention which yeast you are going to use. Since the recipe has wheat in it, I would suggest you use something other than US-05. I personally have had trouble with strong phenolic flavours about half of the time whenever I mix wheat and US-05….Not sure which yeast Joolbag used, but I am wondering if it was US-05?

A pack of Nottingham or two 7gm Coopers kit yeasts (=14gm), would work. Rehydrate.

Good luck,

Christina.

8 Posted: Wednesday, January 04, 2017 3:27 AM

ChristinaS1:

Your recipe didn't mention which yeast you are going to use. Since the recipe has wheat in it, I would suggest you use something other than US-05. I personally have had trouble with strong phenolic flavours about half of the time whenever I mix wheat and US-05….Not sure which yeast Joolbag used, but I am wondering if it was US-05?


I am using US-05, but am not particularly concerned for this recipe. King Ruddager has used US-05 extensively for this specific brew, and I am cutting the wheat down from 1/2 to 1/3 of the total malt, so any off flavours should hopefully be well hidden.

9 Posted: Wednesday, January 04, 2017 4:47 AM

Beefy:

ChristinaS1:

Your recipe didn't mention which yeast you are going to use. Since the recipe has wheat in it, I would suggest you use something other than US-05. I personally have had trouble with strong phenolic flavours about half of the time whenever I mix wheat and US-05….Not sure which yeast Joolbag used, but I am wondering if it was US-05?


I am using US-05, but am not particularly concerned for this recipe. King Ruddager has used US-05 extensively for this specific brew, and I am cutting the wheat down from 1/2 to 1/3 of the total malt, so any off flavours should hopefully be well hidden.


Maybe it will be alright, but don't say you weren't warned.

I have had phenolic flavours using US-05 with as little as 250gm of wheat DME, which is a lot less than you are planning to use.

Cheers,

Christina.

10 Posted: Wednesday, January 04, 2017 5 AM

I used us-05 and rehydrated. Seems like a game of roulette to me.

I haven't given up on us-05, but am now building a starter each time to make sure I pitch enough cells.

Christina, have you encountered any phenolic flavours since using SNS starters and us-05?

11 Posted: Wednesday, January 04, 2017 5:17 AM

joolbag:

I used us-05 and rehydrated. Seems like a game of roulette to me.


In your case, I would suspect ‘kit twang’ as the source of off flavours.

I've never believed that twang came from using malt extract or kit yeast, or anything else possibly added to or done wrong with the kit…… but rather the effect of inescapably unfresh/old hop bitterness - particularly from Pride of Ringwood, which is the only hop I have never heard someone say good things about. That flavour has nowhere to hide in light beers.

12 Posted: Wednesday, January 04, 2017 6:53 AM

joolbag:

I used us-05 and rehydrated. Seems like a game of roulette to me.

I haven't given up on us-05, but am now building a starter each time to make sure I pitch enough cells.

Christina, have you encountered any phenolic flavours since using SNS starters and us-05?


Hi Jools. I haven't used it again. Still avoiding it. Next time I try it I'll do the same as you and make a starter. I am about to head down the lager road now. My next few batches are going to be lagers.

Beefy, I am not sure what the cause of extract twang is, or what people even mean when they say that. To me oxidation tastes different than phenolic off flavours. That clove-like/medical flavour is very distinctive.

Cheers,

Christina.

13 Posted: Wednesday, January 04, 2017 7:08 AM

Ben 10:

Looks okay but…. could do with some hops.


And some RYE !

14 Posted: Wednesday, January 04, 2017 12:38 PM

Christina and Beefy I took a gamble and used US-05 in my first ever all-grain batch, a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale clone. I did however build it up in a starter. It could very be a kit thing, as in my other topic where I referenced recipes using OS Series cans exhibiting these off flavours - I think it is clovelike so am going with phenolic.

I'll keep you posted! At bottling (on 1/1/16) it tasted good, no off flavours. If it develops off tastes in the bottle I will be shattered given it is my first AG brew.

I have three kits in my arsenal left, I saw them on special at Woolies (and fresh too) and couldn't resist:

  • IS Series Austalian Pale Ale, for Styx River Pale Ale recipe
  • TC Series Bootmaker Pale Ale (probably will late boil hops, flameout and dry hop)
  • TC Series Brew A IPA (same hop schedule as the Bootmaker)

Keen to get to the bottom of this, but not keen on having entire batches wasted! (well I don't tip them, I just drink them very slowwwwwwly)

15 Posted: Wednesday, January 04, 2017 5 PM

Set this up tonight, went pretty well. Notes:

Simcoe and Amarillo both smell amazing! But I need better scales to reliably weigh out <10g. I ended up just visibly dividing the 1oz packs into thirds for each timed addition.

The Wheat LME seems fresh, but was way darker than I anticipated. Beer renamed to Golden Brown Ale.

I need to find a better way to strain the wort into the FV. My current strainer clogs up really quickly with hop crud, meaning I have to stop and shake it out into the sink every litre or so. I think this causes a lot of wort loss (actual OG 1047 vs 1051 expected).

16 Posted: Thursday, January 05, 2017 1:29 AM

If it develops off flavours in the bottle then it's more likely a bottle sanitation issue than a yeast issue. The two times I've had these flavours in my beers, they were apparent in the FV. In the first batch, it dissipated with time, but in the second one it never fully went away.

17 Posted: Thursday, January 05, 2017 6:56 AM

Kelsey I'm not convinced. My sanitation is spot on, I'm fastidious and check every single bottle. It doesn't explain a whole batch being off-flavoured; if it were bottle sanitation it would.be a few bottles.not 100%.

My recent batch of citra Pale and my.stone n wood pacific ale and all of my lagers have been spot on. Extract brews for me, kits I'm using up my last 3 soon. The exception would be brew A IPA, I late hopped that and it came out very good. I do like the customisation that all extract affords. And you've sent me down the slippery AG slope, so let's.see where that takes me!

18 Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 6:51 AM

Four days in, and this is coming along nicely. SG is 1.018, krausen is slowly reducing, lots of swirling still going on within the fermenter. The hydrometer sample is still sweet with a lot of suspended matter…… but the hop bitterness level, aroma and flavour are all pretty special.

So at the very least, it seems like I haven't massively cocked it up.

19 Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 11:20 AM

Beefy:

joolbag:

I used us-05 and rehydrated. Seems like a game of roulette to me.


In your case, I would suspect ‘kit twang’ as the source of off flavours.


Hey Beefy
Someone mentioned “kit twang” in another forum in and I said I'd never encountered it in Cooper's kits and that he was more than likely suffering from “Corona twang” from drinking too much pissy Corona and his taste buds had gone. Well, he went off like Hillary Clinton at a Trump rally, lmao!

20 Posted: Monday, January 09, 2017 3:17 PM

Chiming in a little late here, but I made my first all extract brew not long ago - a Pale Ale with 150gms of Wheat malt and US-05…….

I'm with ChristinaS1 and Joolbag - it's the only completely undrinkable beer I've ever made. Tastes and smells like Band Aids. Whilst I'm willing to not completely rule out some other fault in process, I really believe everything was spot on.

I hope your results are better, Beefy. The pain of tipping what I thought was going to be my best ever brew down the sink has been the brewer's equivalent to childbirth