1 Posted: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 3:53 PM

I am doing a Irish Red Ale tomorrow as per the recipe on this site, it uses 1.7Aust Pale Ale, DME, Crystal, doesnt say what L rating, and Roasted Barley. Mainly because I have all of these ingredients at hand. Does anyone suggest any adjustments or hop additions.

2 Posted: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 4:12 PM

Ol fart:

I am doing a Irish Red Ale tomorrow as per the recipe on this site, it uses 1.7Aust Pale Ale, DME, Crystal, doesnt say what L rating, and Roasted Barley. Mainly because I have all of these ingredients at hand. Does anyone suggest any adjustments or hop additions.


I used 200g of caraaroma which is essentially a dark crystal with quite a unique flavour. It was a beautiful addition well worth considering.

3 Posted: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 4:47 PM

OK thanks much for that…

4 Posted: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 4:48 PM

Ol fart:

I am doing a Irish Red Ale tomorrow as per the recipe on this site, it uses 1.7Aust Pale Ale, DME, Crystal, doesnt say what L rating, and Roasted Barley. Mainly because I have all of these ingredients at hand. Does anyone suggest any adjustments or hop additions.

The Coopers DIY Recipe: Irish Red Ale uses the roasted barley to throw the reddish hue. If following the recipe, best to probably stick with something around a medium crystal for that addition. CaraAroma is definitely a very good choice for the crystal addition, & if you have it on hand, then no probs using it for the 100gm crystal addition in the recipe.

If planning to brew a beer like this using more CaraAroma, then best to either drop or reduce the addition of the roasted malt else the beer will likely end up quite dark (IMHO).

Cheers,

Lusty.

5 Posted: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 4:57 PM

OK yes I understand, do I need to hop it at all.

6 Posted: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 5:15 PM

Ol fart:

…do I need to hop it at all.

“Need to”, no. I wouldn't for a first brewing of the DIY recipe.

This recipe is one of the sneaky ones that uses a reduced ferment volume (20 litres) to intensify the flavours of the kit & subsequently increase bitterness & overall flavour with that.

If you do wish to add in a small late hop addition then hops such as Fuggle, East Kent Golding, & Styrian Golding 10-15gms @ 5-10mins in a short boil wouldn't do the brew a dis-service.

Cheers,

Lusty.

7 Posted: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 6:07 PM

Cool, thanks…

8 Posted: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 8:57 PM

I've run the Coopers DIY recipe through several recipe builders incluing the one I'm building for my own use. It seems to be a bit light for my taste.

I tried it with extra malt like 1.5kg and that seemed to give it more alcohol volume.

I might be way off the track, but when I read “Irish Red Ale” I'm expecting a good heavy beer that you would expect Irishmen to drink. The offered recipe just doesn't seem to fit my expectations.

9 Posted: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 9:09 PM

It's probably meant to be something like a Kilkenny, which is only about 4.3% ABV I think.

10 Posted: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 5:30 AM

Yeh well if its anything like a Kilkenny, I'll be dissapointed, I'm just trying to achieve a red ale, as I haven't made one as yet….

11 Posted: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 7 AM

If it's any help, my simple but tasty extract version was as follows:

1 x Coopers SO lager
1.5kg LME
200g Sugar
200g Caraaroma (30min steep)
100g Med Crystal (30 min steep)
50g Roasted Barely (30 min steep)
10g Fuggles (15 min steep)
S-04 yeast




12 Posted: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 7:37 AM

How do you reackon that'd go using real ale or pale ale
what %ABV dis you get?

13 Posted: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 9:50 AM

Ol fart:

How do you reackon that'd go using real ale or pale ale
what %ABV dis you get?


This one came out pretty dark as is - more like twany port colour, so I wouldn't consider using the Real Ale kit who's bitterness is also a bit high for an Irish Red. That kit is actually quite full-flavoured anyway and I've found it's not one you can add too much to without quickly going overboard. After doing numerous Kits plus additions brews of various combinations I've now decided to use only the lighter kits as my base and build up the flavour profile with specialty grain and hop additions. So, the kit I mostly use now is the OS lager, possibly the most neutral of them all, and for me it's also nice and cheap at my local supermarket! I've used the pale ale can a couple of times which is also a good choice but it's more expensive and harder for me to get.

My ABV was around 4.5%.
You can see it in action here:

https://youtu.be/_IgaEAoOMS8

14 Posted: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 11:39 AM

OK yeh, gotcha with the OS Lager idea, that makes sense.
Thats a fine lookin drink on the UTube clip.
Is there somewhere that I can look up whats in a kit can, or does it come down to experience, I agree the Pale Ale is a bit dearer, I only bought it because it appears in a lot of recipes.
Anyway, mine has just gone into the fermenting cabinet using a Pale Ale can, 1 kg of DME, some crystal and roasted barley, and 10g of EKG hops, I used a packet of 04 yeast into 20 litres with about a quarter of the kit yeast….fingers crossed.

15 Posted: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 12:19 PM

Ol fart:

OK yeh, gotcha with the OS Lager idea, that makes sense.
Thats a fine lookin drink on the UTube clip.
Is there somewhere that I can look up whats in a kit can, or does it come down to experience, I agree the Pale Ale is a bit dearer, I only bought it because it appears in a lot of recipes.
Anyway, mine has just gone into the fermenting cabinet using a Pale Ale can, 1 kg of DME, some crystal and roasted barley, and 10g of EKG hops, I used a packet of 04 yeast into 20 litres with about a quarter of the kit yeast….fingers crossed.


Post us a pic in about a month or so

16 Posted: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 12:24 PM

G'day Ol Fart,

The following might help you with what is in a Coopers Tin. It is on the forum somewhere.

The first one is grain content of the different cans -



That whiteboard picture Sean referred to a while back is very interesting indeed. Not only does it give grain quantities for a lot of the Coopers beers, it also gives the ingredients for their extracts and kits. Here's the chart (dated 20.11.2000) (apologies for the dodgy formatting - figures are for pale, crystal, wheat and black malt, eg 4000.500.400.0 means 4000 of pale, 500 of crystal, 400 of wheat and no black):

EXTRACT BREWS

Pale Crystal Wheat Black
Malt N/O 6400.0.0.0
Lager 6400.0.0.0
Pilsener 5400.0.0.0
Draught 6400.100.0.0
Stout 5200.0.440*.880
Dark malt 5600.0.0.800
Ale 6000.240.160.40
Bitter 5000.400.320.120
Classic 5000.260.320.240
IPA 5700.280.320.40
Nut Brown 5000.280.320.240
Crystal 3200.3200.0.0
Amber 6300.240.0.60
Extra light 2900 BARLEY 4000
Light amber 6100.260.0.0

* This figure appears to have been erased, but is still faintly visible.

“LAGER CELLAR BREWS”

Pale Crystal Wheat Black
Birell 5500.160.0.0
DB 5100.80.0.0
Export 6200.240.0.0
Pale Ale 4600.40.200
Premium 5500.Medium 60.280.0
Dark Ale 4650.0.200.200
Ale 5900.40.240.0
Stout 5000.0.440.600
Vintage 6200.Medium 60.350.0


Example:

From above, the Best Extra Stout is: 82% pale malt, 8% wheat malt and 10% black malt.

The stout tin is 80% pale malt, 7% wheat malt, and 13% black malt.

Assuming that the tin, when completely dried, would be 80% of its initial weight of 1.7kg, that would make it 1360g. Its weights of dried components are therefore:

pale.crystal.wheat.black
1040g.0g.91g.169g

Now, we want 3350g in total to produce the 6.3% ABV of the Extra. So, in addition to what's provided by the tin, we need:

2750g pale - 1040 = 1710
268g wheat - 91 = 177
335g black - 169 = 166

Now, assuming that DDME is LDME plus some other stuff to make it dark, I can replace the 1710g of pale malt plus 166g of black malt with 1kg DDME and 1kg LDME. Add 200g of wheat malt, and our malt schedule is done. Add a bit of Goldings to bring the IBU up, and that's it!

The following one explains about the IBU's per can -


Ok then - here we go! (However, I'm still puzzled by Coopers' claim that IBU drops 10-30% during fermentation. Some of the software around will need revising if that is not the case. )

Using the formula: IBU of tin*1.7/23

Beer = IBU on can = IBU (based on 23L)
Lager = 390 = 28.8
Draught = 420 = 31.0
Dark Ale = 590 = 43.6
Real Ale = 560 = 41.4
Stout = 710 = 52.5
Pale Ale = 340 = 25.1
Mex Cerveza = 270 = 20.0
Can Blonde = 420 = 31.0
English Bitter = 590 = 43.6
Euro Lager = 340 = 25.1
Heritage Lager = 390 = 28.8
IPA = 710 = 52.5
Irish Stout = 560 = 41.4
Aust Bitter = 495 = 36.6
Pilsner = 420 = 31.0
Sparkling Ale = 490 = 36.2
Trad Draught = 420 = 31.0
Wheat Beer = 300 = 22.2

Hope this helps to throw some light on it. To get colours, SRM's, you would need to put your recipe into something like Beersmith. It's not only the contents of the can but all the grains and malts that go with it.

17 Posted: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 6:02 PM

Blimin Heck, Geezus, , Not only do you know heaps but are more than willing to share your knowledge.

Thats wonderful information, and I thank you lots for your trouble.

I wan't to be like you when I grow up.

I put this recipe thru Beer Mate , and felt it was a waste of time.

I put the can in as pale malt liquid extract, but that probably wont work.

Anyway its all a massive learning circle, hopefully I'll be able to offer some advice to newbies one day.

18 Posted: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 6:33 PM

Hey Ol Fart, thanks for the nice words, but I just collect all this in the hope I can understand what it is I'm trying to brew. So if I can share and help someone that's great. I figurethat's what forums are all about.

Just one note, if you do happen to use Beersmith and include a Coopers Can, the IBU's and SRM's are wrong. No mater what style you put in, the reading is way off the scale. It's like they just use the IBU off the can, but it doesn't adjust to the size of your brew. Seems to okay in other recipe software.

Cheers

19 Posted: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 6:50 PM

Good Stuff
thanks again
over and out…..

20 Posted: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 7:58 PM

I feel like I've just had about 400 beers trying to make sense of that… it's times like this I'm glad I make up my own recipes.